Posts by Island Man

56

Why Faith is Self-Defeating

by cofty in

the god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.

faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?

for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.

Island Man

Here's a fictional scenario that highlights the folly and danger of faith:

A deeply religious man starts hearing a voice in his head. The voice tells him that it is God. "God" tells him that it would make a great nation out of him if he obeys his commands.

The man tells others about it, but they don't believe that it's really God talking to him. He doesn't seem crazy though, everything else about him is normal except for him hearing the voice. He develops strong faith that it really is God that is talking to him.

One day he has a terrible seizure followed by a coma that lasted a couple days. Doctors scan his brain and discover a tumor in his brain. Because of the location of the tumor, doctors know that it is the cause of the auditory hallucinations the man has been having.

They inform the man but he refuses to accept it. He has faith in his "God". By faith, he perceives that the doctors are misled by Satan. He perceives that they were sent by Satan in a bid to destroy his faith. It was a demon that entered into him and gave him the seizure. The whole incident was all an elaborate machination of Satan to get the man to renounce God! This he perceives clearly, by faith.

Later, "God" speaks to the man and asks him to sacrifice his three year old son to him. His wife and son come to the hospital to visit him shortly after this and when his son hugs him, the man, by faith, grabs his son by the head with both hands and snaps his neck.

56

Why Faith is Self-Defeating

by cofty in

the god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.

faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?

for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.

Island Man

The requirement of faith also exposes the fact that the God of the bible is man-made and not a real supremely wise, truth-loving being.

A real supremely wise being that values truth would not value faith as a virtue because faith leaves people vulnerable to being deceived and is no way of determining what is really true.

Every single major religion uses faith as the cop-out to justify belief in the unproven. They even use faith to justify belief in claims that can be, and have been, scientifically disproved!

So faith actually serves as an excuse to believe lies and pretend that they are true. A truly wise supreme being would know this and would not require faith of his worshipers knowing what it leads to.

But humans who want to deceive and control other humans by getting them to accept their unproven claims - religious con-men - they value faith, because it serves their ends. It gets people to credulously drink, hook, line and sinker, their ridiculous claims while telling themselves that they are good and noble for being credulous!

You see the claims of religion cannot stand up to scrutiny and logic so religious con-men had to come up with a way of demonizing scrutiny and logic in order to survive. So they came up with the idea that God wants people to whole-heatedly believe and accept fanciful claims without doubting. And they also demonize doubt. The whole concept of faith was created by very early religious con-men as a means of countering logic, reason and evidence.

It's so fricking obvious! Faith is not a virtue but the enobling of credulity to get people to believe insanity. Faith is no way of knowing what is true but a way of justifying believe in just about any crazy claim. Why can't religious people see right through it?!

56

Why Faith is Self-Defeating

by cofty in

the god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.

faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?

for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.

Island Man

i thought faith was to do with trust

Faith is about belief. Trust can be considered as a form of belief. To trust someone is to believe that they are dependable either as a safe person to be with or a dependable person to rely on. So So faith can involve trust. But trust is not the only kind of belief so faith cannot be limited to trust. Faith applies to any and every kind of belief that does not involve definitive detectable evidence.

Faith is about believing without seeing. "The evident demonstration of realities that are not seen"; "Happy is he that believes without seeing."; "Walk by faith not by sight"

Every time JWs and others say that faith in not blind, THEY ARE LYING against their own holy book!

56

Why Faith is Self-Defeating

by cofty in

the god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.

faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?

for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.

Island Man

Faith is the assured expectation of what is wished for. The pretentious demonstration of unproven fantasies. For by means of it, the men of ancient times deluded themselves and others into religious servitude. Faith is the enobling of credulity. Faith is folly dressed up as a virtue. Faith is religion's shield against the fatal missiles of evidence and sound reasoning.

By faith religious people perceive that each different species of animal was magically brought about by an invisible man in the sky, so that all the scientific evidence proving evolution has to be ignored and denied.

By faith the religious mind is blinded so as not to see, far less admit to, scientific evidence contradicting the claims of ones cherished fantasies.

By faith there exists myriads of contradicting religions, for by logic and evidence they would all be discarded as rubbish.

Faith is adult-approved childish behavior; adult approved belief in imaginary friends; adult-approved make-believe.

375

This thread is for proof that God exists

by juandefiero in

jw
friends

however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

(1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

Island Man

That guy who said religion is the opiate of the masses - he was so very right!

Belief in God is not founded in facts and reality. It's founded in all things emotional, all things subjective. It produces a psycho-emotional "high" in its adherents allowing them to cope psychologically with problems like: coming to terms with mortality; enduring illness, poverty, injustices, etc.

Religion helps people cope in much the same way that alcohol and drugs help people to cope. But just like the high produced by drugs is all in your head and does not really solve the problems in your life, so too it is with religion.

Just as drugs have the ability to damage the brain and cause people to think and act irrationally, so too it is with religion.

Religion, period, has been an evil scourge on humanity. It has been a fetter to progress. It has been a provocateur of bigotry, tyranny and atrocities. People who believe irrational things without proof can easily justify atrocious behavior without shame or guilt.

"However, if some have a view that God exists, they don't need a pass from you or me or anyone else. "

Any extraordinary claim that is promoted as truth but that cannot be substantiated with evidence deserves to be treated as a lie! Lies are dangerous because they don't conform to reality and when they influence people to act in a manner that does not conform to reality, they or others end up getting hurt - sometimes killed! - by reality. That is the danger of lies! That is the danger of theism!

Unproven religious beliefs do not deserve respect just as lies do not deserve respect. Disproven religious beliefs deserve strong ridicule! Lies only harm society in the long run.

Respect religious lies today and next thing you know they're national laws tomorrow! Next thing you know, it's ok and justifiable to burn albinos as witches because the belief that albinos are witches is widely respected and believed to be true - because no one was brave enough to ridicule it for the nonsense it is when it first started a century ago.

Thousands of years from now. Humans will look back on our time with incredulity at the fools who advocated respect for unproven, wishful-thinking, harmful, toxic, family-destroying, progress-hampering religious beliefs. Just as we today find it hard that people justified owning and mistreating people as slaves so too people will look back at the folly of religion.

4

TALKING NONSENSE by using words attached to nothing

by Terry in

jw
friends

especially in listening to people who "believe" things (spirituality, faith, etc.

) do i hear words being used which are nonsense.. i'm a person who cherishes words in a weird, almost fetishistic way :)i discovered this quite young.

i was drawn to complicated word patterns and liked to repeat them.

Island Man

Terry, you should take up learning Esperanto if you haven't already. You might find it very fascinating. It's one of the easiest languages to learn and it allows for very creative ways of expressing things. It's almost like playing with lego - linguistically speaking.

69

Funny things to not do at the Memorial

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

pull out a can of cheese whiz, top the bread with it, and take a nibble.. .

say really loud...."oh, wow!

jesus' body is really tasty this year!".

Island Man

You know, rebel8, there are youtube pranksters who are always looking for new prank ideas to film and upload. I'm sure there are some who might be willing to pull off some of the suggestions on this thread. Ever heard about trollstation? If they're willing to do this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0TPIJVrTjk

... why won't they pay a special visit to a kingdom hall on memorial night?

69

Funny things to not do at the Memorial

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

pull out a can of cheese whiz, top the bread with it, and take a nibble.. .

say really loud...."oh, wow!

jesus' body is really tasty this year!".

Island Man

If you're a lady you can wear an orange hat or head band fitted with a tiny hidden light positioned beneath a tuft of cloth vaguely shaped like a tongue of fire. Then when they start passing the emblems you take a bite and immediately activate the light giving the illusion that the tuft of cloth sticking up is like a tongue of fire (holy spirit) like is mentioned in Acts 2. You can even play a hidden sound device that makes a sound like a stiff rushing breeze.

69

Funny things to not do at the Memorial

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

pull out a can of cheese whiz, top the bread with it, and take a nibble.. .

say really loud...."oh, wow!

jesus' body is really tasty this year!".

Island Man

You should go and partake then after they finish passing the bread and the wine just stand up from your seat and shout loudly for all to hear:

"This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, He who has exalted his Son above every authority and every governing body; and who is glorified by the giving of honor to him; He who has given his Son as true drink and true bread for life everlasting to all that would drink and eat of him:
'You are not my people! For the reason that you have rejected the leadership and instructions of my Son to follow the leadership and instructions of men - your superfine governing body - I also reject you!' is the utterance of Jehovah. 'And those trembling at my word - those obeying my Son by eating and drinking - you murmur against them in your hearts, saying of such ones: 'Uhh! He is holding to false religious ideas!' 'Uhh! He is emotionally unstable!'
Was it for an elite class that I sent my Beloved One to die, that you people should have the nerve to contradict his instruction by saying that all should not partake? You people are indeed in an elite class for you have exceeded the scribes and pharisees for haughtiness and presumptuousness by overtly rejecting and defying my Son while proudly professing yourselves to be his only true followers!'
'For the reason that you people are rejecting the flesh and blood of my Son his sword and the birds of heaven will feast on your flesh and your blood at My Great Evening Meal to come!' is the utterance of Jehovah."

Then walk out.

12

PAROUSIA: The Watchtower's IRON BALLOON

by Terry in

the iron balloon: parousia.

“up, up and away in my beautiful.

.balloon,” is the lyric of a popular song from the 60’s.. it captures an emotional exhilaration lifting us from everyday life way up into the sky away from all our cares and woe.. .

Island Man

Matthew 24:36-40 should actually be, and makes more sense as (I've color coded related portions to show how the thoughts are linked together logically):

"“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows,+ neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.+ 37 For just as the days of Noah were,+ so the presence* of the Son of man will be.+ 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,+ 39 and they did not know until the Flood came and swept them all away,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.+ 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."

The point of comparison Jesus was making between his presence and the days of Noah is that people then did not know in advance when the flood would come, just as people would not know in advance the day of Jesus' presence.

His reference to the people in Noah's day doing everyday activities like marrying, eating, drinking, etc, is a way of emphasizing the unexpected nature of the event - they had no clue what was about to happen as they were caught doing the activities of normal, peaceful, everyday life. He mentions this to impress on his followers mind just how sudden and completely unexpected his presence will be, catching everyone by surprize. He does this by likewise referring to people being out working in the field and grinding at the mill - normal, everyday activities - on the day of his sudden presence. His whole point was to impress upon their minds that sudden and unexpected nature of his presence and thus reinforcing his main theme to keep on the watch because you do not know when he is coming.

Watchtower mistranslates the beginning of verse 39 by rendering it as "they took no note" as if to give the impression that they were not taking note of the sign of Noah's preaching as they were too caught up with everyday life. But's that's not the point Jesus was making. Jesus was simply emphasizing the unexpected nature of his presence to bolster his point about the need to keep on the watch.